Show Transcription: 

Jo

Welcome to the Business and Sequins Podcast. I'm your host, Jo Blowfield. This podcast is for any woman who wants inspiration, practical help, and a big load of sparkle in the three areas of business, health, or wealth. I have real-life conversations with women who share their journey, their ups, downs, wins and challenges. If you want a bit of sparkle in your life through these great woman stories, then thank you so much for joining the business and sequence podcasts. Well, welcome to another episode of Business and Sequins. I'm so excited about my guest today. Today, I have got the amazing Shivani Gupta, who is from Leadership Engineers. Shivani moved from India to Australia at the age of 11. She had to deal with racism and manage her confidence in a new country. She graduated with a double degree in Electrical and Electrical Engineering. And following her MBA, she moved into senior leadership roles in corporate Australia. After a life-changing trip to Nepal, she started her own business. She's won the Telstra Business Woman Awards, EY Awards. And as an honorary member of the Golden Key Society. She's run several million-dollar businesses. She's the Author of eight books. And she's spoken to over 150,000 people globally and in 18 countries. She's passionate about girls and women, engineering their own career, and confidence. Oh my goodness, does that introduction not to just make you go, "I want to hear from the amazing Shivani"? Oh my goodness, welcome to Business and Sequins. 

Shivani

Oh, thank you. So that almost sounds like you're speaking about somebody else.

Jo

No, I'm speaking about the delightful you. How incredible are you? Wow, I'm going to give you a clap. Amazing.

Shivani

You are so gorgeous.

Jo

Oh my goodness. So tell me, you know, I've outlined some pretty amazing things here. But one of the things that really struck me when I was reading your bio and stuff, is your life-changing trip to Nepal? Are my goodness, in your own words. Could you tell me and the listeners a little bit about this? 

Shivani

Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you do the introduction, or you know, when you get introduced at different speaking events, etc. We always look at the things we've achieved in the end. But it's the journeys that sits behind it and that I guess the pain points that behind that really form and transform us into who we are. So my trip to Nepal had already been cancelled by us, I was in a corporate pretty big global role. And work always got in the way. So I already cancelled my trip twice. And I finally booked the trip. And the trip happened just after September 11. And obviously, we are aware of what happened to the US with 3000 people dying in the Twin Towers when the planes crashed. But what happened in Nepal, subsequently afterwards was the Royal Family was slain by one of the cousins. And so a lot of people then cancelled their trip because of what was happening on September 11. A lot of people cancelled their trip to Nepal, they were worried about their safety. And I had already cancelled my trip twice to Nepal, and it had been this yearning to go. So I checked with the local authorities and check with the federal government flights are still going in. Obviously, a lot of people have cancelled their trips to the US. And I decided that I was going to go but what was really interesting Jo was that I got there, and there was not one single other person booked on this trip. So I don't know how much money they made out of this trip. But I have my own guide, and I have my own Porter and I have my own coke. And there was me mine, me myself and I on this particular trip trekking through the Annapurna ranges in Nepal. And the beautiful thing about that was there because I didn't have anybody else I didn't speak a lot even though I spoke a bit of Hindi while I speak fluent Hindi, but I didn't speak Nepalese and there's not a lot of commonalities and so I had a lot of silence for the first time on this trip. And when I felt tired, after a few hours of walking, I would just then asked my beautiful party to say could we stop here and have a chai or stop here and hang out with the kids. And I think probably the most transformational moment for me in Nepal was sitting at this cute little village which we stopped a lot on and grabbing my backpack and a bottle of water. And this beautiful, beautiful little kid ran up to me he was maybe about five years of age and beautiful smile big white teeth on this brown skin and he looked at me And he was used to obviously having visitors go through and in my backpack, I was carrying those Barley sugar lollies, I don't know if you get them in New Zealand, but they're like they were sent age particularly having bought them in Nepal. And so I went, Okay, he's used to visitors, and they're obviously given these barley sugar. So I got my backpack out, and I gave it to him. And he broke the lolly in half. And he took the other half of the lolly, put it back into his wrapper and put it into his pocket. And I didn't quite understand. And then he just sat there like looking at me, you know, smiling, and he was just so beautiful. And then a minute later, his sister ran out, maybe she was about three, three and a half. And I thought, Ah, here we go, I better start unpacking my backpack again, you know, what really shifted in that next moment for me was that she didn't ask me for another lolly. He took out the one in his pocket. And he gave it to her, he gave her the half. And then he took out the one that he was sucking on the other half. And he wrapped it back up in the paper and put it into his pocket. And I realized at that moment that that lolly was probably going to last him for quite a while. And that was his little source of pleasure. This was something that was going to bring him so much joy. And I just started crying, I just cried and I cried. And I cried on that trip. And I think I realized for the first time that people were so happy there, and kids were so happy. And they had this joy and this freedom, even though they didn't have financial freedom, but I had all this financial freedom, be corporate job, pass on the road, stray driving this particular type of car, money in the bank, but I felt really unfulfilled, I felt like there was something very deep missing for me. So without going through all the other ups and downs on that, you know, a month in Nepal, I came back and I resigned from my job. And I also resigned from my relationship, I've had enough of this very average relationship, that was not their choice. And so I met two very massive decisions coming out of Nepal. So it was pretty transformational.

Jo

I've heard lots of amazing things about Nepal. And then it can have that kind of effect on you. But that is incredible. I mean, I tried to stop myself from crying, just listening to that story. And I think to that, what you've probably got is that you were in that moment, because a lot of people wouldn't even see him do that, a lot of people wouldn't even see him wrap that lolly up, put it in his pocket or anything like that. So obviously you were in that moment, you could see that moment. And then you acted on that moment as well. Which is just incredible. Because so many times throughout our lives, we go through life, and we miss those moments that could put our life on a different trajectory. Wow. So you came back, you got out of your relationship, you got out of your job that you're currently in, you know, how did you cope with that? Because I'm assuming that you know, your inner critic, if you've got one, was going crazy going, what are you doing? This is crazy, you know? How did you cope with all of that did help. And what time period was that in?

Shivani

Look, it was, it was a really challenging thing because I finally got to, you know, my family who were wonderful and fantastic. But none of my family run their own businesses or entrepreneurs. And I don't even know what that word meant, it's only now that I'm starting to become comfortable with that word. But at the time, you know, they were like, Okay, I see. So what are you going to do? And I was like, Well, I think I'm going to start my own business. I think I want to maybe do some speaking, I think I want to do some mentoring. And I wasn't very clear on what I wanted to achieve. And I think that not only scared me, but it scared a lot of other people around me. One of the great things and again, I wouldn't have called him that at the time. But I had a coffee with somebody who I had worked with. He was a lot older than me. And we had a really great professional relationship. And one of the things that he said to me is, one of the things you want to do is give yourself a time frame of how long you're going to be in business. And if it doesn't work, hey, you've always got the option of falling back and I went, that's a great idea. And so I gave myself two years, I thought well and I did a budget. And I went okay, I can live pretty simply. And if I could just go out for some beers on a pizza one night and go out to the movies with some girlfriends and other night. That would be enough like I can leave on very little for a year or so. And I would have enough money maybe for about a year and a half to two years. And if at the end of that I haven't been able to make it a success, then I can always just go and get a job. So that was my little backup plan. It wasn't very concrete, but that was my backup plan. But I think I scared a lot of people around me, my family and my friends. I think they just thought I was having an early midlife crisis. But what I knew was that the pain of going back into corporate for me at that point was greater than the pain of living more simply. And so I really started to feel this. Not repulsion. Maybe this was a repulsion but this is real I don't want to do that. I don't want to live like that anymore. And That probably was more important than how it span out, you know, span out in terms of running and starting a business. 

Jo

And so to be in the situation that you went to take so much guts to be able to do there and go, where do you think that kind of grit because you've got to have grit to be able to do it as well? Where do you think that grit that you've got? Because I mean, you've achieved some incredible things or in your life? Where do you think that grit and determination comes from? That gives you that ability to be able to propel yourself forward?

Shivani

It's such a good question. I don't think there's one answer for me, I have, I grew up in a family that had very strong values. I also look at my grandfather, who is very, very strong value, very strong principled, I remember him refusing to go to certain people's houses, because of the food they served, or how they treated their children or their grandchildren when my grandmother would want to go there. I also have a father who's now just turned 75, who's probably one of the best mentors I've ever heard. And despite having this Indian father, and very, you would expect to be a very traditional father. You know, if you say to my dad, well, why did you move to Australia when she was 11. And my brother was seven. And he'd say, well, Shivani deserves the same rights and the same opportunities as her brother and her father and her uncle, so and so he's a very pro-women, pro-education human. And I think when you grow up with people like that, who, you know, are your sponsors, and are advocates for women, being who they are, that does a lot for my grid, I think and my resilience around that. And I think great also isn't developed because everybody's loving, I think great. Also, for me, Jo is, you know, developed when people treat you pretty poorly. I copped a fair bit of racism only from one or two boys. But it was the first time I looked at myself going, I didn't think of myself having brown skin, I just thought I was the same as every other kid. I also, unfortunately, came through lots of, you know, unwanted touching in the workplace, sexual harassment. And you know, at the time, particularly my 20s and 30s, I didn't know how to deal with that. I didn't know whether that was normal, and certainly in my 30s, and something I've only done enough therapy to now finally be able to talk about it is to go back and uncover having experienced sexual abuse for my childhood. And I think when I've looked at that, and surviving that, and looking at the meaning of that, and leaking it now into my purpose, and who I am, I think when you go through those really difficult periods, and you're able to come out of them, not completely for but continuing to work on yourself. I think that's what really creates that for it. And I think that, you know, I've always loved butterflies. And the first book I wrote had butterflies all the way through it. And I've always loved that, that story of that Caterpillar, almost having to push itself through the cocoon and the butterfly having to emerge through that difficulty. We can't sort of pull out a butterfly infected killer doing it. And I think, for me, it's the same thing. I think transformations happen through really hard stuff. And I wouldn't change any of that, including the sexual abuse, I wouldn't change any of that in my life now, because it's who's what's transformed me into who I am today.

Jo

Oh, my gosh, I admire you so much, I admire you and I have tried two times now not to cry while you've been telling your story. I just think, gosh, for all of the adversity that you've faced, and to have come out like you have you. Your dad, I would like to give him a big hug. I just really would. I mean, his proactiveness against, you know, towards women is just incredible. And so through all of this, you've been, you've started your own business, you've won many awards. And you've also ran several million dollar businesses as well. Do you want to tell us a little bit about some of the businesses that you've owned?

Shivani

Yeah, and there's a few in there that actually completely died and were complete failures as well. So you know, again, I think it's so important when we're speaking that we speak about the things that haven't worked well because somebody once said to me Shivani that if you are going to be really successful and let's say you have 10 ideas, I'm like I have like a million ideas. And I remember them saying but one of the things you need to be prepared for is that seven or eight out of your 10 ideas will fail. And that's something Jo I don't think people talk enough about so I think to get to the successful businesses, it's so important that there's been failures. I started a childcare center and a play center that completely died. I started a couple of things online before completely died. One of the books I tried that was going to do amazingly well I ordered bucket loads of them, you know, I went oh my god, I you know, not that I expected to be a JK Rowling but I was like, Oh yeah, we're going to do like a 10,000 copies from this is going to be Fantastic, I've still got a number of boxes sitting in my garage. So there's been some monumental failures along that journey. But one of the things that has really inspired me is around running wellness and wellness being such a growing industry. So I bought a flyer failing business about seven years ago in wellness. And then I've set up a number of other organic dice bars, and got them all passed a million dollars. And that's been a really amazing journey. Currently, I'm in those businesses, I have about 50 to one our bar, I have exactly 52 staff. And the idea is that we provide a range of services in there, I've also been really interested in property for a long time. So I have bought properties that were falling down or not very well presented, and then renovated them and then sold them both commercial and residential as well. So I like taking things that are not working well, and trying to fix them and really make them, make them better and, and make them successful.

Jo

Oh my gosh. And yeah, as you said, you don't I think when you do have businesses that don't work and things that don't work, I think that it can make you quicker and faster as well with the way that you quickly re-adjust or pivot or move on to the next thing as well. And you know, you've had several that have done exceedingly well. And now you know, also to your author, you mentioned your books as well, and that, you know, you've had your book that you thought was gonna sell really well, and it hasn't. What kind of books have you written? Because you've got eight books? So what kind of books? Have they all been similar? Or have they been, you know, totally different?

Shivani

Yeah. They've always been with the premise of supporting women around their career around the confidence around self care and four of those I've written by myself and the other four, I collaborated with other people. And so the first book was passionate work. And that was really my journey of corporate, leaving corporate, and finding myself and finding a way to start businesses, I went and interviewed a lot of women who had started their own businesses and getting them to share their journey as well as mine. And really what that book was around inspiration. I also did a lot of research and focus groups, and we surveyed about 500 women across Asia Pacific, and found that, you know, why is it that women aren't getting into corporate roles? Why is it that more women are running their own businesses, a lot of women run their businesses, but they never get past this really successful point. And why was that so all those surveys I get, one of the things I found is that the number one reason that women don't, for all of those in all those different areas is a lack of self belief and a lack of self love. So I wrote a book called I love muscles that are published in the States. In Australia. I also wanted to have a guide when I first started my own small business that there are so many different things I had to go to here for this seminar and this for marketing and this first sales and this for financial so I created this almost like a workbook or business GPS. So for people starting out, we can you just download simple templates of you know, having a business plan and having a marketing plan and what sort of things to consider. And then I've written a bunch with other amazing people. So once called Eight, which was eight Authors around Australia, that project took us the longest because we were also busy. But we wrote a book called Sharing our journeys. And I also wrote some chapters in a book that was published around passion. And that book was written by and coordinated by Janet Bright Applewood, who is an international New York best selling author. And that book ended up getting to number one on Amazon. So they've just been these varieties of things but my intention always writing and I've just started a nine, not sure when that'll be finished, maybe a while, but the old intention is always that when somebody reads it and they're going through a particular challenge, particularly women particular girls and young women, that they get some ideas or strategies or some inspiration from that to be able to apply that into their career and confidence so that's always the premise or the intention behind it.

Jo

Oh my goodness. Well, I yeah, I am just as I'm sure the listeners are as well just sitting here going wow, you are a wonder woman with a marvelous brain. I love it. Love it. 

Shivani

And you can I just say and you and you know, you and I have come across some you know very similar people with Tina and some of the work we've been doing. I love one of the things we've been speaking about is you know, "Done is better than perfect". So I occasionally look at one of my books now john got thinking, you know, why did I use that quote, but it's that moment in time, right at the time, it was the best effort you can do. It's a bit like looking at my children sometimes like I don't know, I could have done that better and cringing, but at the time, the intention was always to help them or you know, help the reader. So I just think just get them out. And you know, if somebody always says to me, Well, I'm thinking of writing a book, and I don't think just do it, don't worry if the outcome isn't amazing, and not perfect, just get it out of your system. And the second and the third one is a lot easier to write than the first one.

Jo

Yeah, well, I mean, I, the eighth one must be organized when you're writing at the moment must be even easier. I mean, well, nine books. So also to Could you just tell us a little bit about Leadership Engineers, because you're passionate about, you know, girls and women engineering, their own career and confidence? Can you just tell us a little bit about that? And about how that has come about? 

Shivani

Yeah, look, absolutely. So I studied Engineering. And that, again, followed my father's and my grandfather's footsteps were both Engineers. And I didn't love being an Engineer, you know, you can be good at something and not really enjoyed. And I thought, you know, I don't want to spend 20 years trying to get into a leadership role. And that's why I did an MBA moved into sort of leadership roles. And one of the things I've really loved about running my own business, which I've been doing for a long time now, is that leadership aspect and growing something and growing people and growing a business. And so Leadership Engineers was this combining of this engineering and this leadership part, and really helping people lead an engineering, career and confidence. And there's probably a number of areas that interested me, but it's about having that niche. And I see so many women that I've come across, particularly through mentoring programs, where their careers are stuck, or they're stagnant, or they're not really sure if they're passionate about it anymore, or they're wondering why they aren't paying, but they're wondering how to ask for a pay rise. Women that sometimes want to have a side hustle and have, you know, a corporate career, but don't know how to make that transition. So it's really about helping women look at their careers and helping them engineer and design it in a way that really would work with them. And around confidence, and getting that self care and getting women and girls to love themselves as a really deep passion of mine, because it's probably something I've struggled with, and I still continue to struggle with. And some days are great, and some days are awful, where I have a lot of self doubt, and a wonder why the hell I'm doing what I'm doing, and what am I just give it all up, really. And so really sharing some of that and, you know, sharing techniques and methods that work. And I guess taking some of that wisdom that I have around that and sharing it with people. So you know, to me, it breaks my heart when I see girls and women not apply for jobs or not make certain friends or not asked for their needs to be met. And I feel like I need to put my drop in the ocean around, making sure that they have the absolute best strategies and ideas and things that they can put into practice that increase their self worth and their self love and they and their confidence.

Jo

Amazing. What, what kind of ages in regards to girls, do you work with, is it, you know, really young? Or is that kind of that teenage years? What age group is it?

Shivani

So I mainly work with adult women in terms of all the online courses, I'm in the process. But obviously, I've been asked to come and speak a lot of different schools, and where people have, you know, getting some advice on career and getting some advice on confidence as well. So I've created a couple of free resources. I've done some videos that I've just put up on YouTube that basically talks about where if people are stuck how to do that. The other resources are really you know, the books and doing that. So I don't tend to do a lot of work directly with girls. But it's something that I'm just starting to put more and more little resources for very little cost or no cost. So that they can actually access that if they've got some financial hills around that, that they can just access that listen to I'd get some ideas, and then really try and take some action around that.

Jo

I love it. We as women just go, we're quite complicated creatures we are. And you know, it's so easy for our confidence to get knocked, it's so easy for that inner critic to come up and to just tear us apart. And so I love the fact that you know, you're out there. Yeah, teaching women, teaching young adults, young women to be able to engineer their own future. And you know, you've come from a background, but you've done exactly that, you've engineered your own future. You've done exactly that. I think it's absolutely incredible. Now, I was just wondering, Shivani, do you by any chance have any tips for our listeners who might be listening? Who might be thinking Gosh, yeah, do you have any tips or insights that might be able to help them if they are feeling like they need a bit of confidence or something like that? Have you got some tips for us?

Shivani

Absolutely. And I know that you know, this podcast is really about business, health and wealth and are you speak about those three things. From a business perspective and a career perspective, one of the things that I always say, Jo, is that we get a little bit stuck in what we're doing next, like the next three, three months. The next six months or I mastered this activity to get to that and that's really important but we really need to have a clearer vision so always say get a piece of paper out get some textures if you're a mom that's listening then you know get some textures and crowns out of your kids and you know write down drawer get stuff out of your soul of what you want your life to look like a little bit longer term you know whether they're words or images I'm a terrible drawer but just get that out of you so always start to you know, do a vision map doesn't always have to be written I like drawing things and seeing what comes out when other What does my life look like in five years or 10 years so then you know do that around your business or do that around your career. In terms of health I'm still working on that health is never been my top three passions as I call it, I think there are seven passions in the in the world and I've got some friends who are really into health thing and their top three patterns we didn't even think about it, it's sort of built into them, it's not built into me. So you know my top patterns of work with perks my number one passion, my families my second and my third one is learning. And so because my health isn't in my top three patterns because it's not intrinsic to me, one of the things I now do is I have some people that hold me accountable and I have to move my body 30 minutes a day. I don't love it because I'm not passionate about it. But I know that when I moved my body 30 minutes a day whether it's just a very gentle walk with a puppy whether it's doing some yoga whether it's doing Pilates once or twice a week just anything where I moved my body for 30 minutes a day just gets my brain fired up a lot more so I try and link my exercise into my mind looks about you're going to be smarter and brighter if you do that. Otherwise I don't get that excited about exercise and my wealth I'm still learning about that too. Like I just feel like there's so many things that I'd like to learn about that and the best thing I think I've learned in wealth is the compound you know if you save $1 it compounds and you know when I look at my life ago, you know I'm pretty well set up I don't need lots of more money but what I get really excited about is creating more wealth to educate more girls in third world countries. What I get excited about is creating maybe a business that lasts longer than me when I pass and something that maybe I don't know my kids want to be involved in or maybe they won't because I my mom is crazy. So I don't want to be involved. So they'll either do it or do the complete opposite I don't know yet but something around wealth agenda, you know, that lasts a lot more than just what car I can drive away to. I leave or buy more properties. I think it's more for me about how do I get back into the world particularly trying to get girls educated? Because I was so lucky that despite the adversities I faced I had a father who really believed in me and you know, Here am I living in this beautiful country of Australia. Not every girl has that opportunity to do that. And I look at what's happening around the world at the moment. With so many of those education rights are being taken away. So I'd love to again have a drop in the ocean that starts to create wealth to educate more girls.

Jo

Oh my goodness, they asked that they had great tips and I love your whole thing about compound interest. The compound effect I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the show. But before you go, I've always got two questions that I ask everyone that comes on. So the first question is, if you could choose a color of a sequins that best describes your personality, what would it be?

Shivani

Oh my goodness, that is such a good question. You know, I know wearing black on this podcast but one of the colors and I used to really hate it as a kid. But I really relate to now is that Indian magenta, you know that hot magenta and I've been starting to buy things around that I've been incorporating that into the website. Why did you say Why? I had to answer that do you relate to that color or just that color?

Jo

No being tell me why you relate to it. I would love to hear because oh gosh, it's such a great color.

Shivani

I love that color now and I think you know I'm from Punjab, which is the north in northern India, the state and they were into these really bright colors often when you see imagery of India, you see those women and those beautiful suits and saris wearing those bright colors and that's a color I just really associate with and I think as I'm getting older like you know when I moved to Australia and particularly copying some racism, I just wanted to be white. I just didn't want to stand out I didn't want to be Indian and I think as I'm getting older, I'm really going back to my heritage and my roots and that color really evokes something in me deep. And then it reminds me of the earth and it reminds me of where I've come from.

Jo

Oh my goodness that is so good. And you would look incredible with magenta as well because Shivani has got this beautiful long back hair. Beautiful colored skin so you would just look amazing in magenta. I think it is perfect. But also feel I think you deserve to be bright for what you're doing in regards to changing your young women and changing women in general. I think you deserve to be bright. You deserve to own that magenta. And I think We're as much as you can, just as your armor because I think it would just fantastically suit you.

Shivani

It was such a great question. I've never been asked a color sequence you would be.

Jo

I go, I love it. And then also too, I have a sequins scale, but just rates from one to 10. And so if one is there currently in your life, you feel like it's really hard to pull yourself out a bit. But you do it anywhere, anyway, or 10 is that life is so good that you're dropping sequins and glitter everywhere you go. For the moment, where do you think your life is on that sequence? scale?

Shivani

Great question, I feel like I'm a nine. But at the same time, I feel like I want to get to 99. You know, like, I feel like there's such a long way to go. And as I'm getting older, I'm like, I want to leave more space and time to read. And I need more time to do this. And I want to do this project. And I want to help here and one volunteer here. So definitely a nine, I think we're asleep today. So bad. You know, it's not about being data dissatisfied. But I think for me, it's about being a bit obsessed about some of the things that I want to do over the next, you know, 40 or 50 years.

Jo

Yeah, I think because you know, you said 99, but I can imagine you living for a lot longer than 99. With the glow that you have, I can imagine that you would live for a lot longer, especially if you're moving your body for 30 minutes a day, every day as well.

Shivani

Right? Right mind and body, just keep moving them and keep doing like living on purpose, like you were around stuff that you're creating. And you know, when you're there than time seems to go by pretty quickly. I'd love to, I'd love to do that. I recently had my son who's 11 said to me, my wanting to know how old you're going to be when you die. And I said, Honey, why do you need to know that. And he said, I just need to work out because my wife and I will be working. I just need to know what day is like you can look after the kids. You try not to go, you know, in front of him because he was so serious about this question. I went well, I'm hoping to make it to 100 man. But you know, obviously I need to look after my health and well being. Yeah, no, absolutely around to look after your kids whenever you're really pleased to take your time to produce.

Jo

I love that. I love that so much I got to text the other night from our daughter who is turning, just about to turn 18. And she sent me a text that just said, "I just thought I'd ask, since I'm turning 18 now, can I be Arabella's legal guardian? Her sister is 12. And I just said to her, what makes you sitting in your bedroom thinking about when we're going to die? And she said, No, I'm just really excited about turning 18. And I thought I could be responsible for my sister now. And I just thought, oh my goodness, I take it better to absolutely you can no problems at all. I just thought what a question to ask, basically, I am thinking about when we're going to die or something like that. And she said, No, she said, I just thought I'd do a bit of planning now that I'm turning 18 I thought

Shivani

Oh my god, we need to introduce them based on hilarious and very, very similar people. He's into planning my son and he's Yeah, just working it I asked him the same thing is are you worried about death or something happened at school. Now I just need to you know, organize life mom.

Jo

I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being on the show today. It has been incredible, listening to you and listening to your story. And yeah, at some stage, I'd love to have you on a bit more and get dive a bit deeper into some of the things that you know you're talking about, especially I know that you are incredible in that whole mindset space as well. And I would love to have a chat to you about even more things that you're into. But thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for tips. Oh my gosh. Okay, thank you very much. Take care.

Shivani

You too. Bye for now.

Jo

Bye. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Business and Sequins. Thank you so much for letting me be the voice in your ear or the noise in your ear for this last little bit. I hope that you've managed to find some form of inspiration or motivation, or even that sparkle that you're looking for in the stories and conversations that you've just heard. Don't forget, if you're wanting a bit of help, and business, health or wealth, then don't forget that we've got our Business and Sequins membership. So thanks again for joining me and I look forward to having you join me on the next episode.